Vamp Or AP - Page 6 - Guild Wars Forums

Zui · Sep 16, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by beta man

allright u replied fast, i will drop off one last one. it is not uncommon for a E/mo to fire off heal party and that extingish ether prodigy ele blah blah yeah its common. now we are not talking about multiple allies taking dmg, we are talking about uneeded degen of the warrior vamp mod that leads to A MONK to heal him in a heat of the battle over time as it adds up. ever a time when u need to heal a warrior then suddenly u got esurged and energy burned? i have no idea why energy is no issue, to me, its a big one and 5 energy can mean saving a toon's life to carry on with the battle, its unwise to waste on a blinded/slowed/kited warrior that can't hit anything to justified his vamp mod to the fullest.

Take your own advice as well and stop posting when you have absolutely no clue what you're reading about. what have it got to do with a E/mo now? we are talking about degen and monk wasting energy here in the heat of a battle. u might as well throw in some other built and bring this issue way out of its point.

allright, i m sorry if my opinion or words offended anyone.

Kk, I'll bold this so you understand better...

The Monk is not healing the degen from the Vampiric weapon at all. Your Warrior has Healing Signet, if nothing else he can use that and heal that ~50 life himself. Your E/Mo has Heal Party, odds are he'll be tossing that around a bit anyway, 10 spec Heal Party heals 59 Damage. 8 Spec Heal Party heals 50 damage.

So, if you as the Monk never, ever have to heal the degen from that Vampiric weapon, because that degen is healed incidentaly by Heal Party, or Healing Signet, or is purposely healed with Healing Signet, how on earth is that bad for you?

Dante the Warlord · Sep 16, 2006, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Sundering is crap. End of story. Unless you can prove to us that they're equal... Which is impossible...

Oh, and there's no 'risk' involved with Vampiric unless you're absolutly retarded.

There are always certain cases where sundering becomes more useful then vampiric. especially if you build your build around sundering.

Honestly vampiric is sometimes hard to use and adjust to...i use both each for certain cases. those and an icy mod.

Savio · Sep 16, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

There are always certain cases where sundering becomes more useful then vampiric. especially if you build your build around sundering.

Name 3 cases. Hell, name 1. (I actually already stated the sole case in this thread.)

moriz · Sep 16, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

this might be a little off topic, but i can't resist defending myself:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Well if no one cares about vamp weapons loseing them health why are 20/20 AP mods worth much more than vamp ones ? If everyone knew this surely it would be the other way?

that's what you said. so basically, you really do want to use a less effective, more expensive mod.

anyways....

the only case i can think of is when you compare individual hits. for example, comparing a critical hit from vamp, and a critical hit with AP triggered on sundering. otherwise, vamp is superior.

and savio... where the #$@#@ is my teddy!!!???

*cough*

Dante the Warlord · Sep 16, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Name 3 cases. Hell, name 1. (I actually already stated the sole case in this thread.)

1. You want to have an easy time and you don't know the right time to switch weapons

2. You are going against a warrior with very heavy armor 140 AL +

3. In the future there may be classes designed solely for defense and survival

Mainly, nothing will be the "best" forever. Im sure in a year or two, everyone will come back and complian how sundering is better then vampiric.

Really in the end, its all personal preference, ask yourself, am i forgetful of switching, do i want to be lazy, do I want to be on edge or just plain have fun...

And for future replyers please i would ask you to please post nicer i.e.

GOOD EXAMPLE:
I think vampiric would be better for that case, or I really don't like sundering in my own opinion, but you are free to agreee or disagree with me...etc

BAD EXAMPLE: SUNDERING SUCKS!....
STFU VAMPRIC SUCKS, SUNDERING RULES!

this way we limit brawls and arguements, if you don't have something good to say DON'T SAY IT

Savio · Sep 16, 2006, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

1. You want to have an easy time and you don't know the right time to switch weapons

Sundering doesn't become better, it becomes the lazy or new person's choice then. But a new player typically won't have the resources or unlocks for sundering, and nobody cares about what a lazy player chooses to equip. You might as well use an elemental mod, it's cheap as hell and still pretty effective in many situations.

2. You run past him because he's got Dolyak Signet on. By the way, sundering loses effectiveness against higher AL targets, so vampiric still wins.

3. ...What does that have to do with anything? (Like they're going to add some ubertank class anyway.)

Quote:

Mainly, nothing will be the "best" forever. Im sure in a year or two, everyone will come back and complian how sundering is better then vampiric.

I'm sure waiting another year isn't going to change much. Unless they changed sundering to 10% always, in which case it'd be used alongside vampiric.

Quote:

And for future replyers please i would ask you to please post nicer

I already posted nice the first few pages, just some people are too dense to get it. The fact is that vampiric > sundering currently, and people keep pulling up the same ridiculous arguments to show otherwise.

Zui · Sep 16, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

There are always certain cases where sundering becomes more useful then vampiric. especially if you build your build around sundering.

Honestly vampiric is sometimes hard to use and adjust to...i use both each for certain cases. those and an icy mod.

Give me an example of one viable build based around Sundering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

1. You want to have an easy time and you don't know the right time to switch weapons

That doesn't make Sundering any good. It just means the player sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

2. You are going against a warrior with very heavy armor 140 AL +

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3066860

Good to know you've bothered to inform yourself on when Sundering is actualy good. Wait, nevermind, if you had read that link that I posted you'd realise Sundering gets worse against higher AL targets... Oh, and please give me one example where a Warrior would have over 140 AL in actual PvP? Note how I said actual PvP...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

3. In the future there may be classes designed solely for defense and survival

Like that's ever going to happen...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

Mainly, nothing will be the "best" forever. Im sure in a year or two, everyone will come back and complian how sundering is better then vampiric.

Dbout it. Sundering would need another massive buff to be equal, or better than Vampiric. Somthing tells me that ANET isn't going to buff it anymore, becuase they don't want to make somthing that has no drawbacks(even though Vampirics really isn't an actual drawback in practice) better than somthing with drawbacks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

Really in the end, its all personal preference, ask yourself, am i forgetful of switching, do i want to be lazy, do I want to be on edge or just plain have fun...

It sounds like you're saying Sundering is good... It's not. If you actualy wanted to have an advantage in the game, and spend less gold, you'd get a Vampiric mod instead of a Sundering. Plus, how hard is it to hit F2 to switch off your Vamp? Seriously...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

And for future replyers please i would ask you to please post nicer i.e.

I'd ask that you actualy be informed before posting. Because responding to idiots spreading misinformation is just not fun, and doesn't make anyone want to be nice. If you had a rational, informed oppinion about why Sundering wasn't crap, and actual facts to back it up, we'd be listening.

Spike · Sep 16, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

this might be a little off topic, but i can't resist defending myself:

that's what you said. so basically, you really do want to use a less effective, more expensive mod.

anyways....

the only case i can think of is when you compare individual hits. for example, comparing a critical hit from vamp, and a critical hit with AP triggered on sundering. otherwise, vamp is superior.

and savio... where the #$@#@ is my teddy!!!???

*cough*

You really have NO clue what your talking about do you moriz. For at least the 5TH time I said I prefed an ele damage mod or even sundering to LOSEING HP all the time. Ele Mods cost from 500 to 3k how is that MORE expensive than a vamp mod at 4k or a sundering at 55 to 75k. The last bit was what probley confused your feeble little mind. The or even a sundering. What I ment was that if I had to choose ONLY between a sundering and a vamp then I would choose a sundering.

Because I personaly don't like -1 HP degen and there are skills that can ADD to your AP. When your AP gets to a certain point (60% at least thats what savio says) it DOES become better than vamp in causeing damage over time. There are also skills which would make the vamp mod better too EG 100 Blades for a sword, cyclone axe for axe or Crude Swing for Hammer.

jimmy_logic · Sep 17, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Only when everything triggers... will you get 60%. Other than that its just plain % your Enchants and Skills Grant. Personally I prefer Vampiric because that always works regardles... no chance involved especially using a recurve or a hornbow.

Spike · Sep 17, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

The only thing that needs to triger is the sundering mod. The other 40% is from skills which can be used as and when you like.

Personaly I use an firey or an icey sword over either vamp or sundering. I was just pointing out that if you used a build thats based on AP. It IS possable for sundering to outdamage vamp over time. As was originaly posted by savio.

Oh BTW Hornbows have a built BASE 10% AP. But the OP was asking about them on swords. Bows are a different question all together since you can get 5/1 strings. As oppsed to the 3/1 mods on swords.

Dante the Warlord · Sep 17, 2006, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Give me an example of one viable build based around Sundering.

That doesn't make Sundering any good. It just means the player sucks.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3066860

Good to know you've bothered to inform yourself on when Sundering is actualy good. Wait, nevermind, if you had read that link that I posted you'd realise Sundering gets worse against higher AL targets... Oh, and please give me one example where a Warrior would have over 140 AL in actual PvP? Note how I said actual PvP...

Like that's ever going to happen...

Dbout it. Sundering would need another massive buff to be equal, or better than Vampiric. Somthing tells me that ANET isn't going to buff it anymore, becuase they don't want to make somthing that has no drawbacks(even though Vampirics really isn't an actual drawback in practice) better than somthing with drawbacks.

It sounds like you're saying Sundering is good... It's not. If you actualy wanted to have an advantage in the game, and spend less gold, you'd get a Vampiric mod instead of a Sundering. Plus, how hard is it to hit F2 to switch off your Vamp? Seriously...

I'd ask that you actualy be informed before posting. Because responding to idiots spreading misinformation is just not fun, and doesn't make anyone want to be nice. If you had a rational, informed oppinion about why Sundering wasn't crap, and actual facts to back it up, we'd be listening.

I stated cases...and im only trying to say that its in your opinion...Sundering is ok, and i think its probably equal in potentail to vampiric... But i use both, so I do not favor any, i am just simply saying that sundering has its purpose and so does vampiric. I used sundering as a begginner weapon, when i had trouble to switch around (actually i didn't even know we COULD switch....i am such a noob). I am now using vampiric, and its a major damage dealer i agree.

BTW you can have 140 AL using a regular max armor, a max sheild, and a defense mod combined with watch yourself. i put the + in becasue you might have some even higher AL armors in the future.

I am ok with criticizing, but PLEASE do it in a nice way.

Not everyone has to use vampiric, id really like to see more individuality now, instead of people forcing other people to go their way... just state the facts, and don't flame. let the ppl decide wats best for them,and just tell them wat they need to hear

Plus id like ppl to stop endorsing vampiric because i don't want to se its price rise to like 60k lol....

Avarre · Sep 17, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

I stated cases...and im only trying to say that its in your opinion...

How must evidence has to be behind a statement before it's no longer considered an opinion. It's a mathematical fact confirmed by skilled players that sundering is inferior utterly to elemental (vs war) and vamp (vs anything).

Quote:

Sundering is ok

Wrong. Read the whole thread.

Quote:

BTW you can have 140 AL using a regular max armor, a max sheild, and a defense mod combined with watch yourself.

Did you read what you quoted for that? Here is is again, important part bolded..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Oh, and please give me one example where a Warrior would have over 140 AL in actual PvP? Note how I said actual PvP...

Exactly how many warriors are using watch yourself in actual PvP, and moreover, if they were, you'd have to be a retard to continue targetting them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

I am ok with criticizing, but PLEASE do it in a nice way.

What you don't get is nobody is critisizing you, you're simply wrong and they have to remind you, over and over. Do you think that a year of study on the mods, and every major PvP'er is wrong because it's just 'in [their] opinion'?

Quote:

Not everyone has to use vampiric, id really like to see more individuality now, instead of people forcing other people to go their way... just state the facts, and don't flame. let the ppl decide wats best for them,and just tell them wat they need to hear

Nobody is forcing you to use vampiric. You are most welcome to use sundering. You are also most welcome to have a statistically weaker character, the rest of us that get to kill you in game certainly don't mind.

Quote:

Plus id like ppl to stop endorsing vampiric because i don't want to se its price rise to like 60k lol....

...

Wow, this thread is rather amusing... no idea how Savio can put up with it.

-Old 3FL- · Sep 17, 2006, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Vamp wins anyways ^^.
Sundering just looks pretty on weapons lol.

Zui · Sep 17, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Yay, Avarre responded for me so now I don't have to tell Dante that he's clueless, again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

just state the facts

Take your own advice, please.

Spike · Sep 17, 2006, 04:05 AM // 04:05

You people (eg the last 3 posters) should REALLY learn to READ preivous post before makeing clueless blanket statements like vamp wins ALLWAYS. As this is NOT the case. OR thinking that this game is pvp ONLY. Its NOT.

Ensign · Sep 17, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Sundering isn't terrible. The lack of health degen is a real benefit (especially in GvG where you spend more time running around and switching targets), and big sundering criticals are nasty things. It's basically half as potent as vampiric over time, but if a lucky sundering crit is the difference between getting a kill and not, why not try it?

I don't know which I prefer to be honest - I haven't had a chance to really test the two since I don't have a PvE warrior. But there's legitimate debate between the two mods now, to be sure.

Peace,
-CxE

Shadowfox1125 · Sep 17, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Savio, I beg you to close this thread.
1. This has treaded on for too long.
2. What needed to be said has already been said. If people won't listen nor critically read the posts, let them do what they want. It doesn't help drilling it into their heads. You can drill them into the dirt on the battlefield.

Spike, I don't want to read everything in the last couple of pages? Why? I already know what kind of rebuttals Savio and the others have receiving by simply looking at Dante's posts. It's hilarious that Dante says that he's impartial to both, because if you remember a specific thread in the Warrior section..

Now, to piss off Spike, who really needs to take his own advice.

I'll take Vamp any day.

lightblade · Sep 17, 2006, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Well, here comes my question. Does sundering work on the damage enhanced attacks? Those damage are told to by pass armor.

makosi · Sep 17, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

My ranger now owns two perfect dragon hownbows (<3) one of which is vampiric and one is sundercrap...er...sundering. Versus the barrels in the Isle of the Nameless, the vampiric is definitely superior in terms of spiking and DoT. Ten hits equals a guaranteed, undisputable 50 damage whereas sundering is not as reliable.

The confusion arises in PvE when people trade weapon mods. 5/-1 Vampiric strings are common and therefore 5k-ish but perfect sundering strings seem to be rarer and has more numbers involved (and sell at ~30k). As a result many people instinctively think that sundering is superior.

The same applies to +5 armour mods and +30hp mods. I'm sure there was a thread proving that +5 armour is of more benefit than +30health in general circumstances.

Avarre · Sep 17, 2006, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

You people (eg the last 3 posters) should REALLY learn to READ preivous post before makeing clueless blanket statements like vamp wins ALLWAYS. As this is NOT the case. OR thinking that this game is pvp ONLY. Its NOT.

In terms of PvE warriors, most of the time zealous wins. I can't think of any good PvE player (non merchant) that thinks sundering is good.

Sep 17, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20	#116
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	Sundering isn't terrible. The lack of health degen is a real benefit (especially in GvG where you spend more time running around and switching targets), and big sundering criticals are nasty things. It's basically half as potent as vampiric over time, but if a lucky sundering crit is the difference between getting a kill and not, why not try it? I don't know which I prefer to be honest - I haven't had a chance to really test the two since I don't have a PvE warrior. But there's legitimate debate between the two mods now, to be sure. Peace, -CxE __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

Sep 17, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14	#109
jimmy_logic Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Sep 2005 Profession: R/	Only when everything triggers... will you get 60%. Other than that its just plain % your Enchants and Skills Grant. Personally I prefer Vampiric because that always works regardles... no chance involved especially using a recurve or a hornbow.

Sep 17, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36	#110
Spike Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: In front of my PC Guild: Kai Profession: E/Mo	The only thing that needs to triger is the sundering mod. The other 40% is from skills which can be used as and when you like. Personaly I use an firey or an icey sword over either vamp or sundering. I was just pointing out that if you used a build thats based on AP. It IS possable for sundering to outdamage vamp over time. As was originaly posted by savio. Oh BTW Hornbows have a built BASE 10% AP. But the OP was asking about them on swords. Bows are a different question all together since you can get 5/1 strings. As oppsed to the 3/1 mods on swords.

Sep 17, 2006, 03:00 AM // 03:00	#113
-Old 3FL- Forge Runner Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Western Australia. Guild: Crystal Mountain [CM] Profession: W/	Vamp wins anyways ^^. Sundering just looks pretty on weapons lol.

Sep 17, 2006, 04:05 AM // 04:05	#115
Spike Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: In front of my PC Guild: Kai Profession: E/Mo	You people (eg the last 3 posters) should REALLY learn to READ preivous post before makeing clueless blanket statements like vamp wins ALLWAYS. As this is NOT the case. OR thinking that this game is pvp ONLY. Its NOT.

Sep 17, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44	#117
Shadowfox1125 Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: PST Profession: W/	Savio, I beg you to close this thread. 1. This has treaded on for too long. 2. What needed to be said has already been said. If people won't listen nor critically read the posts, let them do what they want. It doesn't help drilling it into their heads. You can drill them into the dirt on the battlefield. Spike, I don't want to read everything in the last couple of pages? Why? I already know what kind of rebuttals Savio and the others have receiving by simply looking at Dante's posts. It's hilarious that Dante says that he's impartial to both, because if you remember a specific thread in the Warrior section.. Now, to piss off Spike, who really needs to take his own advice. I'll take Vamp any day.

Sep 17, 2006, 08:19 AM // 08:19	#118
lightblade Forge Runner Join Date: May 2005 Guild: The Etereal Guard Profession: Me/Mo	Well, here comes my question. Does sundering work on the damage enhanced attacks? Those damage are told to by pass armor.

Sep 17, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31	#119
makosi Grotto Attendant Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: "Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff. Guild: Requirement Begins With R [notQ] Profession: Me/	My ranger now owns two perfect dragon hownbows (<3) one of which is vampiric and one is sundercrap...er...sundering. Versus the barrels in the Isle of the Nameless, the vampiric is definitely superior in terms of spiking and DoT. Ten hits equals a guaranteed, undisputable 50 damage whereas sundering is not as reliable. The confusion arises in PvE when people trade weapon mods. 5/-1 Vampiric strings are common and therefore 5k-ish but perfect sundering strings seem to be rarer and has more numbers involved (and sell at ~30k). As a result many people instinctively think that sundering is superior. The same applies to +5 armour mods and +30hp mods. I'm sure there was a thread proving that +5 armour is of more benefit than +30health in general circumstances.